2v2 ladder

[centermass]

Yes, KV whooping your ass is predictable ROFL

[xianzai]

[centermass]

I'm here for you man

[Hotseat]

*sniff sniff*

Is that hubris I smell?

the prblem with 2v2 activity is, I would think, as simple as what Nap said...getting four folks able to fly at once is of course *duh* twice as hard as a regular match..and those can be difficult to organize anyway.

as much as I love using TIR. thats not going help stimulate the 2v2 specificly.

The short answer? simple. extend the time limits for getting 2v2 matches flown by a factor of three or four and then folks won't feel so under the gun...and therefore won't be as hesitant to challenge in the first place perhaps. thats the only way I can think of actually stimulating the 2v2 activity, short of offering some point bonus to each members 1v1 rating for 2v2 matches flown...that doesnt seem like a very viable option.

[BearForce]

the prblem with 2v2 activity is, I would think, as simple as what Nap said...getting four folks able to fly at once is of course *duh* twice as hard as a regular match..and those can be difficult to organize anyway.

How about this: Restrict one weekend every two weeks to 2v2 flights only... That is, no 1v1 challenges can be scheduled or flown on those weekends... Make TS available only to team flights... and toss anyone out who is not on a team... Give the teams one month to complete their challenge match (two complete weekends) and perhaps we'll see more 2v2 teams formed, so that they can compete on those weekends.

Probably a pipe-dream, but what do you guys think?

BF
"Let's roll!"

[centermass]

I think the guys need to want to fly 2v2.

The fact is that 2v2 matches are hard to fly because of poor SA, poor communication, and target fixation get you killed quick.

When going up against a team that has those things you can be eliminated quickly which can reduce confidence.

But you have to want it.

[KidVicious]

Good point CM

[BearForce]

Thanks, CM (and KV)...

Now, what ideas have you got that would make people want to fly 2v2...
Have you got more time to offer everybody? Money? Have you got a any ideas that would keep teams flying... regardless of their won and loss record?

Perhaps if we can build a cammaradarie in here... I believe that it could happen. Unfortunately, there are some who believe that it is "us against the world" and they make their opponents uncomfortable with minor insults, and try to hold them up for humiliation... Not every culture is embodied with a need to use the carrot walk to show off their manliness... (Personally... I used to drop in a potato... but I didn't realize it was supposed to be in the FRONT...!)

I enjoy flying... would love flying with KV, Tank, and many other top guns (including you) inspite of their strange and often caustic bantering (I've flown with Tank a few times... and I learn from him every time. KV has offered to help me in the past... and my respect for these guys is high) however, I barely have time for 1v1's... and my 2v2 partner left me for somebody with more skill(can't blame him)... But, you are probably correct that nobody likes getting their butts handed to them. Yet, if they didn't feel like they were being ridiculed by "superior" pilots, I'm sure they could handle the losses in order to learn where they need improvement.

Most of the guys I've flown with don't have a chip on their shoulders when they get handed a defeat by me... but that's probably because I don't tend to rub anybody's nose in it... (Good thing too... because the shoe is on the other foot more often than not).

Anyways, if you've got any good ideas to help stimulate 2v2 flights (short of giving money away) please post them.

Thanks guys... my nickle is used up now.
BF
"Let's roll!"

[centermass]

LOL I think you missunderstood my post.

I was saying that most people don't 2v2 because of those things that are required for 2v2s make for a more difficult competition.

I'm pretty sure that KV, Tank, and I are more than willing to bring the standard of flying up via training. Tougher matches are what we want. Training does not have to be matches.

KV and Tank have trained me in 11 months to be where I'm at now. From what I can tell all that was needed from them was the willingness to work at reviewing ACMIs, reading BFM materials, and the willingness to learn.

They can be rough and razz you some times, but talking shit is a part of competition and fun.

If the pilot does not hunger for that challenge there is nothing you can do to make them fly.

[KidVicious]

Perhaps if we can build a cammaradarie in here... I believe that it could happen.

I see that commraderie already amongst pilots that know each other, and among pilots that are getting to know each other. From what I see it's not a matter of 'could happen' but 'is happening'.

Unfortunately, there are some who believe that it is "us against the world"

This is a virtual international dogfighting competition (not, lets hold hands and sing ), it would behoove those competing to have that mentality, sporting a good natured attitude about it of course...which is what we've seen increasing of late.

and they make their opponents uncomfortable with minor insults, and try to hold them up for humiliation...

This I have not seen either. Have their been incidents some of us havn't been made aware of? From what I've seen on this forum, dialogue has been tasteful, and in good nature. I feel this is taking it a bit far suggesting humiliation and insults aside from good natured jesting in trash talk amongst pilots that are familiar with each other; thus 'spreading the love' of the sim and creating friendly rivalries between pilots and squadrons.

However, if there have been some extreme cases I've not seen them and would be interested if you could point them out so that perhaps ,as a group, we can culture each other together and provide a more cohesive- albeit competitive atmosphere in this arena.

Not every culture is embodied with a need to use the carrot walk to show off their manliness...

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: We are simulating the deadliest art of aerial ballet, in an aircraft that is made for this dance.

This is a competition were we are 'virtually' hunting down and killing our opponent as a hobby. I'm not sure what kind of atmosphere you're suggesting, but anyone that has spent time in a readyroom BFM briefing knows exactly what I'm talking about before pilots go up and airwrestle .

Good natured jesting will occur between pilots that jive together, it's gonna happen and in my opinion, should be encouraged.

If ones culture expects all seriousness and line drawn respect at every corner, they're in the wrong type of competition, and perhaps have too thin of skin, and should consider something else. Just my opinion of course.

In conclusion, I think things are moving along rather merrily, and Nap has expressed his opinion of the 'air' of this competition...and that time will allow friendships across many miles to become more accustomed to each others personalities and expressions in this virtual world.

[KidVicious]

Now, more closer to the topic:

I think that publicity is needed to spur the 2v2 competition. Drop lines around the community inviting squadrons to send their best aces, and teams to the international dogfighting league..etc.

A strong public showing, with vigor (a good speaker) is usually all that's necessary to rejuvenate(sp?) a compeition.

More remarks on matches from the administrators instead of just scoring them would also help.

Be involved gentlemen. Not only are you competing, but your also a driving representative behind the organization. Share in the victories, and condol the losses of the pilots, rather than treating this as a plain old reporting board. Make comments on who's progressing, and perhaps who's in a slump.

I don't think I've seen one post yet about the history channels latest programs, one viewing tonight (about dogfighting) and another on Friday that is suppose to be a regular program.

Things like this, being more involved whenever you have time to post, and keeping abreast of the competition is added flavor and spark to what we are doing here.

[BearForce]

.... ....

You just ruined my fifth course of Kum Bi Yah .....

You make a good point about posting news worthy items, KV...

And CeneterMass... you've been hanging around a couple of excellent teachers.... I know Tank's capability first hand, and I've heard Buff speak very highly of KV's ability to review acmi's... AND I know first hand that he can be generous with his knowledge...

I guess I'm the only one taking offense... damn Hotseat keeps calling me his "bitch"... (just kidding HS!). I may be mistaken... and I shouldn't have repeated the rumblings that I thought I heard about the reasons why some folks are not flying this season. It could well be that the disruptions to flying caused other things to come center stage in their lives... and they just don't have time for this any longer.

As for the simulation of actual a2a stuff... I don't see me ever doing the carrot walk... even if I can become an ace in this...

<S>!
Thanks guys. Good job!
BF
"Let's roll!"

[Hotseat]

I have to say, I can really understand where both Bearforce and KV are comming from, both viewpoints make sence...and they arent mutually exclusive.

in a healthy online community there will of course be a great mix of personality and such. its the rub when your dealing with folks far flung by geographical standards.

a good natured ribbing is to be expected among friends in this sort of environment (see my sig for words on that) I can't find fault at all with those who know each other ribbing each other, the problem comes when it starts comming out onto the heads of folks who you perhaps arent as familiar with. so its a matter of knowing the people who are in the room and being aware of (not neccesarily censoring) what you say based on those in earshot.

it is of course vital to the community for those who DO become offended to speak up about it immediatley and constructivley rather than letting it brew into a stronger drink than it need be. Bearforce has provided a good example of that here. bringing the subject up with more savoir-faire than most here perhaps would.

so, Kudos to those who wish to be yourselves in this community

and Kudos to those who have the courage to bring any offence up in a mature way rather than brooding about it in quiet circles and letting it rot.

[centermass]

No worries